Legislature(2005 - 2006)BELTZ 211

04/26/2005 03:30 PM Senate STATE AFFAIRS


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Recessed to Call of Chair 8 PM 4/27--
*+ SB 182 STATE VETERANS' CEMETARY & FUND TELECONFERENCED
Moved SB 182 Out of Committee
+ HB 183 CAMPAIGN FINANCE: SHARED EXPENSES/LISTS TELECONFERENCED
Moved SCS CSHB 183(STA) Out of Committee
+ HB 210 BLOODBORNE PATHOGEN TESTING TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 210(JUD) Out of Committee
+ HB 215 PERM FUND CORP. INVESTMENTS/REGULATIONS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
SB 186 EXECUTIVE BRANCH ETHICS
Moved CSSB 186(STA) Out of Committee
SB 187 LEGISLATIVE ETHICS/MEETINGS
Moved CSSB 187(STA) Out of Committee
*+ SB 127 EXEC. BRANCH ETHICS: FINANCIAL INTERESTS TELECONFERENCED
Moved SB 127 Out of Committee
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
= HB 127 PFD:PEACE CORPS/OLYMPIAN/SANCTIONS
Moved CSHB 127(FIN) am Out of Committee
        SB 127-EXEC. BRANCH ETHICS: FINANCIAL INTERESTS                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   GENE  THERRIAULT   announced  SB   127  to   be  up   for                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
6:16:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR   HOLLIS  FRENCH,   Sponsor,  described   SB  127   as  a                                                               
straightforward   attempt  to   clearly   define  a   significant                                                               
financial interest.  When Mr. Bunde investigated  former Attorney                                                               
General Renkes  in the KFx  matter, he found there  was ambiguity                                                               
associated  with   determining  significant   financial  interest                                                               
because  Alaska law  doesn't provide  a  hard or  fast number  or                                                               
percentage for that.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
The  bill  defines financial  interest  on  page 2.  A  financial                                                               
holding  is significant  if it  amounts to  $5,000 or  1% of  the                                                               
total value of the company stock, whichever is less.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He  reviewed Section  1 and  read the  statutory definitions  for                                                               
personal  and financial  interests.  That  section contained  the                                                               
word "or"  too many times, which  made it too broad.  He narrowed                                                               
it  to just  the instances  where your  action has  a conjectural                                                               
effect.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Proposed  Section   1(b)(2)  is  new  and   relates  to  personal                                                               
interest. No  money is involved;  there are only  those interests                                                               
that are held without any potential for profit.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:20:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THERRIAULT said  assuming he works gas  pipeline issues and                                                               
that the pipeline goes through, would  he have to disclose if his                                                               
Fairbanks property  value skyrockets  in proportion to  all other                                                               
Fairbanks property.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH  replied that  wouldn't  be  a personal  interest                                                               
because  property  is  a  financial  interest.  Nevertheless,  he                                                               
opined  that  he would  be  absolved  because  the action  has  a                                                               
conjectural  effect.  "You  can  posit  a boom  off  of  the  gas                                                               
pipeline, but it's not necessarily going to be true."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Section 1(b)(3)  focuses on financial interest  and subparagraphs                                                               
(A)(B) and (C) lay out the  following three criteria that must be                                                               
met to for an insignificant financial interest to occur:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
   A. You or an immediate family member must hold the interest.                                                                 
     The current ethics statutes already adequately addresses                                                                   
     how you are charged with knowledge of what your relatives                                                                  
     may own in their stock portfolio.                                                                                          
   B. It has to involve an ownership that is source of income or                                                                
     from which a person receives or expects to receive a                                                                       
     financial benefit. That's some sort of concrete financial                                                                  
     relationship that will bring you money.                                                                                    
   C. The value is reset to less than $5,000 or 1% of the total                                                                 
     value of  the business,  whichever is less.  Determining the                                                               
     amount is  a balance,  but it  should be  at an  amount that                                                               
     would give  the public  confidence that decisions  are being                                                               
     made with them in mind and not the public officer.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Finally,  the bill  broadens the  definition  of official  action                                                               
because  current  statute  is ambiguous.  As  proposed,  official                                                               
action  would include  just about  anything that  is done  in the                                                               
course of a workday as a state employee.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:24:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THERRIAULT asked how the $5,000 compares to other states.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH replied  Idaho, Kentucky and three  or four others                                                               
have a limit similar to $5,000.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER asked if the  public office disclosure statements                                                               
don't require  about the  same information  as (3)(A)(B)  and (C)                                                               
and would therefore already be available to the public.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  responded there  are two  things going  on there.                                                               
The object  of disclosure is to  let folks know what  you own. It                                                               
doesn't get you  out of an ethical conflict if  you have money on                                                               
the line. The other thing is  that you as a public official don't                                                               
make a decision that affects your investments.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   THERRIAULT  posed   the  hypothetical   situation  of   a                                                               
Department  of  Law  employee whose  family  owned  a  particular                                                               
business  and  asked  if  that   employee  would  have  to  avoid                                                               
involvement with anything dealing with that type of business.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH replied if the action  that is taken would be more                                                               
than conjectural then  the answer would be yes.  Assume that your                                                               
family  owns  fishing  permits  in Kachemak  Bay  and  you're  an                                                               
attorney for the Department of  Natural Resources. If a regulator                                                               
asks for  a written  opinion on fishing  permits in  Kachemak Bay                                                               
you should send the work to the next attorney.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
6:27:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THERRIAULT noted there were  no further questions. He asked                                                               
Senator Seekins if he  had SB 186, SB 187, and  SB 127 noticed in                                                               
the Judiciary Committee.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS said he thought so.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THERRIAULT  asked the committee  members if  they preferred                                                               
to amend Senator Seekins bills in  this committee or move them to                                                               
Judiciary to make the changes.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON said  his preference  would always  be to  see the                                                               
changes. He  pointed out  that he doesn't  sit on  Judiciary. The                                                               
sponsor has  said he  would change  some sections  in one  of the                                                               
bills but the committee doesn't know what those changes are.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THERRIAULT asked Senator Seekins  if he was close to having                                                               
a committee substitute.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS said  one difficulty  is that  the drafters  are                                                               
very busy. He  said that Senator Elton or any  other member would                                                               
be  welcome  to   join  the  Judiciary  Committee   and  ask  any                                                               
questions, he said.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON expressed  appreciation for the offer  and said the                                                               
unspoken  point  is that  he  wouldn't  have  a vote.  These  are                                                               
substantive issues on bills that  were introduced just a few days                                                               
ago, he said.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HUGGINS  remarked he is  on Judiciary, but  the challenge                                                               
is getting the fix.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR   DAVIS  suggested   talking  about   moving  the   bills                                                               
individually. SB 186 needs more change than the others.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS stated  that the same concepts  would be embodied                                                               
in  the final  bill;  it's  just getting  the  right language  to                                                               
accommodate those concepts.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  THERRIAULT called  a  brief  at ease  from  6:32:53 PM  to                                                             
6:36:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THERRIAULT announced he would  like to move the three bills                                                               
as a  package. He recessed the  meeting to the call  of the chair                                                               
at 6:37:59 PM.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GENE THERRIAULT reconvened the  April 26, 2005 Senate State                                                             
Affairs  Standing Committee  meeting  at 8:11:49  PM   April  27,                                                             
2005. Present  were Senators Elton,  Wagoner, Huggins,  and Chair                                                               
Therriault.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
        SB 127-EXEC. BRANCH ETHICS: FINANCIAL INTERESTS                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:13:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   GENE  THERRIAULT   announced  SB   127  to   be  up   for                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He asked  the sponsor to  provide explanation for why  he settled                                                               
on the particular dollar amount.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:14:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOLLIS FRENCH, Sponsor, explained  that the basic idea is                                                               
to  promote the  public trust.  First, the  lower the  number the                                                               
more  likely it  is that  the  public will  view public  official                                                               
decisions as  being in  the public's interest  rather than  as an                                                               
investment interest.  Second, $5,000  was selected because  it is                                                               
similar to  what is  used in  other states.  The third  reason is                                                               
that  the median  income for  Alaskans  is about  $35,000 and  so                                                               
$5,000  represents over  10%  of that  annual  earning. From  the                                                               
public's perspective, that's a lot of money.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  THERRIAULT  restated his  interest  in  passing the  three                                                               
ethics bills as a package and asked for a motion.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  motioned to  report SB  127 and  attached fiscal                                                               
notes from committee with individual recommendations.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THERRIAULT announced that  without objection the bill would                                                               
move to the next committee of referral.                                                                                         

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